Grown and Growing Podcast
Welcome to Grown and Growing — your favorite podcast for women who know that life in your 40s (and beyond) is just getting started! This is your safe, relatable space where we talk about it all: relationships, kids, health, career, sex, travel, and everything in between.
Join two vibrant, unapologetic Black women as we share fun, candid conversations about navigating life’s ups and downs while owning every stage of our growth. Think of us as your girlfriends who keep it real, laugh hard, and remind you that you’re never too grown to keep growing.
Grown and Growing Podcast
77. Anti-Aging vs Aging Gracefully: Exploring Both Sides
Aging—it’s happening whether we like it or not, so why not talk about it? In this episode of The Grown and Growing Podcast, we dive headfirst into all the things that come with getting older—the good, the bad, and the laugh-out-loud moments.
We’re breaking down what it really means "age gracefully" (and whether we even want to), how society tries to tell us what aging should look like, and the ever-blurry line between making tweaks and "doing the most."
So grab your beverage of choice (Roberta’s is wine) and join us for a fun and honest conversation!
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Sonia (00:16)
Welcome back to the Grown and Growing podcast. I'm Sonia Hamlin.
Roberta (00:21)
and I am Roberta.
Sonia (00:23)
It's so funny that you don't say your last name.
Roberta (00:25)
Y'all ain't getting
my last name. We don't know each other like that yet.
Sonia (00:33)
We're still growing. We're still growing together as co-hosts. You'll see it works out. And I am Roberta.
Roberta (00:41)
All day.
Sonia (00:43)
all day. you know, this week, the conversation is all about aging and I am, Ooh, I'm excited. Cause we got a lot to talk about. We have a lot to cover. We have a lot of opinions, about aging. So go ahead, take it away, Roberta.
Roberta (00:59)
Me taking away?
All right, because I'm usually probably the one that's always talking about aging the most. All right, so when I think of aging, I'm more so thinking physical appearance. I mean, a little bit also like being considered old is like being out of the know and like you're not up on like the latest music or trends or fashion or whatever. Like that's also in like the aging bucket, but it's mostly physical. And so physical meaning like both your body, like having mom bod.
Sonia (01:08)
Mm-hmm.
Roberta (01:29)
And then also like face card, know, his face doesn't quite look like it did. That is plump. Okay.
Sonia (01:29)
Mm-hmm.
I'm gonna need you to, okay, let's take a step back. What the heck
is a mom bod? I heard a dad bod, but I've never heard a mom bod.
Roberta (01:39)
Right.
Well, it's the same thing. It's just the woman version. like, I feel like when the main thing that constitutes a mom bod or dad bod for that matter is the midsection. And it's like, even if you work out and you got like the whole six pack thing going on, there's still like a lack of curves for a woman, for a black woman. So specifically, okay, the,
Sonia (01:51)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
For a black woman.
Roberta (02:07)
First time I ever thought, ooh, that's Mombod. was, forget what movie it was, but it was Regina King.
Sonia (02:14)
Are you saying she had a mom bond?
Roberta (02:15)
Love her.
She has a mom bod. Love her. Mom bod. No, like her, it just goes straight down. Like she was cut out. I don't know what she was playing in, but she was like cut up and I was just like, but she doesn't have like, and I feel like your, your, part shrinks or something. You have a shorter torso as you get older. I don't know. But when I see it, I'm like, that's mom bod or that's dad bod. Cause
Sonia (02:19)
I just thought she had hips or something.
Okay,
so I don't, first of all, don't think you're just naturally curvy when you're younger. I just, mean, yeah, cause you have a flatter stomach or something, but you just, I feel like some people just have hips, right? Some people just have no hips and no butt. mean, yeah. Okay. So I've never heard of mom bod Are you sure you didn't make that up? Is that an actual thing or?
Roberta (02:45)
Yes you are.
Bye.
Yes, I'm familiar with that, yes.
pretty sure I'm not that clever. Like I'm pretty
sure I didn't make that up.
Sonia (03:10)
All right, and then you talk about face card. Okay, look, I don't care how old I am, my face card will never decline, but go ahead, continue.
Roberta (03:18)
Exactly. But
the emphasis being on your face and like what your face looks like, you know, and I granted like women now wear a whole lot more makeup than we did like 10 years ago. So I think that's contributing to it. it doesn't matter what age you are. It's just like a certain appearance you have to have. But as you age, you know, you get wrinkles and your skin doesn't...
Sonia (03:26)
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Roberta (03:45)
is not as elastic and starts to like sag a little bit. And so those cues and signals of aging, those are the things that like give me.
Sonia (03:48)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Okay, so when I think of aging, I definitely think about the physical, right? Like the body. I think the biggest thing about aging for me, has to do with weight. Like that's one of the bigger things that I've noticed that the older I get, the harder it is to lose weight. Like I used to be able to be like, ooh, I'm going to a wedding in two weeks and I need to lose 10 pounds. Bam, stop eating this. And all of a sudden that 10 pounds is gone.
Roberta (03:58)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm, yeah.
Sonia (04:24)
I don't have that ability anymore. Like don't have the ability to just drop weight. I'm still curvy, so I don't know where you, I mean, maybe you think I got mom bod because I got a little tummy now, but the curves are still there. The curves are still there. I don't know at what point in your aging calculator you start to lose your curves, but it's not there. Damn, why you put it in? Okay. 50? It's not 50.
Roberta (04:34)
No
I think it's like 55. I think it's like 50-55.
I don't know, I mean I haven't like lined up women or men to look at like the difference in their bodies between 50 and 55.
Sonia (04:53)
You
Alright,
the other thing I equate to aging is moving slower. Man, I cannot get up as fast as I used to.
Roberta (05:05)
You mean literally
like getting up off the sofa?
Sonia (05:10)
Yes, getting up, not even off the sofa, off the floor. Getting up off the floor, even though I go to the gym, I'm just not spry, I just like, whoo. You you used to be able to just hop up. Ain't no hopping up, because if you hop up, you might pull something.
Right, if you sit too long, like another thing about aging with me, if I sit too long, then my hips hurt. Like I need to like stretch. Like stretching is a thing. Like you can not, you used to be young, you know, stretch for what? Now, no ma'am, no ma'am.
Roberta (05:36)
Stretching is definitely a thing.
All right. Well, yeah,
your body doesn't recover quite. Yeah.
Sonia (05:42)
it definitely doesn't recover.
So when I think of aging, those are the things that I think of, like, ooh, this is happening. I mean, obviously you throw in perimenopause menopause, and all that stuff, even though I know that that stuff is coming. But generally when I think about aging, that's what I'm thinking about.
But what prompted us to have this conversation though is the difference in our opinions on anti-aging versus aging gracefully. So how would you define anti-aging?
Roberta (06:03)
Okay.
Right.
So to me, anti-aging is doing things in resistance to appearing older and actively trying to preserve your youth.
Sonia (06:27)
Mm-hmm.
Okay? And aging gracefully?
Roberta (06:36)
Aging gracefully is just not caring about your appearance as far as like aging at all. Like you are literally just like, I'm out here getting a year older and whatever that looks like and feels like it is what it is. It's a very strong, it is what it is vibe. yeah.
Sonia (06:53)
Really? Okay, so I don't think that at all. think, I
mean, I agree with you with, I, so would you rather, if you had to fall into a category, would you rather be anti-aging or would you rather age gracefully? I mean.
Roberta (07:08)
See,
it's so admirable. like people should be in the like age gracefully. You should do whatever in life gracefully. I mean, no, no, I don't wanna. I'm gonna go kicking and screaming.
Sonia (07:17)
You gotta go kicking and screaming. Okay,
okay. So I think anti-aging, I agree with you, it is doing things that are going to significantly slow down or stop aging, right? Which, you know, there's that. Aging gracefully.
I think that to me, it's a mindset behind it, right? Like aging gracefully means that you accept that you are growing older. There is nothing that you can do about it. You've accepted it and you've embraced it. It doesn't mean that you've accepted what comes along with aging, but you don't beat yourself up if your skin is not like, you know, smooth.
as glass anymore, like, or you, doesn't mean that you don't take steps to, you don't look your best. It just means that you accept that getting older is to me, a privilege and you kind of live in that space and you don't, you're not chasing your youth, which is what I feel like, you know, when people go hard on the anti-aging, it's like you're chasing youth. And it's like, girl, youth is, it ain't coming back.
Roberta (08:10)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Right. And this,
right, right. And as a whole nother, we can do a whole nother hour on why it is that you want to, you know, maintain that youth. So, okay. When I don't disagree with what you're saying. So, and also it uncovered like this other cognitive dissonance I have. So, you probably familiar with it. So I had, I turned 46 in October and I put a social media post basically saying,
Sonia (08:33)
It's gone.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Roberta (08:59)
changed the perception of age. And it was my ex that actually pointed that out and not for nothing, he was a lot younger, which I don't know if that makes a difference or not. But anyway, why you gotta call that out? He, no, he was 34. So he's 12 years younger than me. He had some wisdom.
Sonia (09:01)
Right.
How much younger?
I mean, you say he younger, but he 44 or what's he 34? There's a difference. Okay. And what is this? What did this young buck have to say
about growing older?
Roberta (09:25)
He has, right,
exactly. And the fact that it came from someone younger with his perspective was very interesting, but also I think needed that neutrality that anyway, basically he was like, you, I don't come across as your typical mid forties or like person that's close to 50 year old. And I should embrace that. He was like, just instead of trying to conform to whatever look or whatever, whatever the trend is for a
Sonia (09:45)
Mm-hmm.
Roberta (09:55)
some young 30 something or 20 something, be who I am in whatever form or fashion that is so that people perceive, no, this is what a 40 something person acts like. There's certain things and that goes across, that's physically, that's from, I hang out all night and go to the club lounge, whatever. I drink my wine, I smoke my weed. I do all the things that a typical probably 40 something year old doesn't do.
Sonia (10:01)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm
Roberta (10:24)
do, but they do because that's me and that's what I do. So I'm caught between wanting to preserve some of that stuff more physically, but also getting people, people in my circles, but also society used to know that this is what age looks like and it's fine.
Sonia (10:28)
Right.
Right.
Right.
I definitely think that, you know, our generation is changing the perception of what age looks like. Right. When my mom, first of all, when my mom was my age, I thought she was old. But I think there's just a difference of just being here and understanding, you know, you're just, you're 46 now is it has happened to you now. Like you are that, you are that age. But I do think that, you know,
Roberta (10:53)
Noth-
Sonia (11:09)
our generation is more youthful than the 46 year olds of past, right? And I don't think that's a bad thing. I think that there's a, that our generation has a lot more life, right? We have seen a lot more, we've experienced a lot more. There's a, we're taking care of ourselves, hopefully a little better. I mean, not on the whole, the country is getting fatter and sicker, but on the...
You know, I feel like the information is there to better take care of ourselves. And also we're resisting the life that...
life that people say you had to have at 40 or 50. You had to be at home. You had to, you know, all of those stereotypical ways of aging. I feel like we are bucking that. And honestly, I think social media has a lot to do with that because we get to see what other people are doing, saying, experiencing. Yeah, it opens up your...
Roberta (12:06)
Right, was saying good ways and bad ways. Yeah.
Sonia (12:12)
It opens up your perceptions of the world. And so you can, you are like, I don't have to do that. I don't have to age. I don't have to consider myself to be old because, know.
Roberta (12:25)
But it happens, think, in more micro ways. Like it happens
in like fashion and things that you wouldn't think a 40 or 50 year old will wear. We out here wearing real comfortable, real secure and fine with it. I think it's also like women choosing or not choosing to have families, to work and have these careers, to be influencers, to do whatever they want at all these different ages. So people, I mean, it's,
Sonia (12:30)
Right.
Right.
Roberta (12:54)
It's a stark generational difference, I think. Because also, like, can't... My girls, my golden girls, I can't help but think that, like, when that series first started, they were all 50. And, like, thinking about how they carried themselves and what they looked and the perception that they were giving off, the golden girls, is nowhere near what I feel like I give off. And so it's just very different for us now because of social, because of fashion, because of all the things.
Sonia (12:57)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Right. And also I just don't want to feel old. I don't want to feel old. I don't want to think old. What is that feeling old? I think there's a, like a resigned, I'm resigned to.
Roberta (13:31)
What is feeling old? What does that mean to you?
Sonia (13:42)
you know, come home and not do anything. I always want to be filled with life, right? I always want, mean, hence this podcast growing and growing, right? I always want to feel like I'm evolving. Like there's always something new to desire, to chase, to achieve. Like to me, that's living. And I feel like as long as you have that, you can always feel youthful even though your body will betray you and not, you know,
Roberta (13:47)
Yes.
huh.
Sonia (14:11)
be the body of your youth, but your mind can be that, your soul can be that, your spirit can be that. And that's what I always want. And I put that over how I look, not how I feel physically, right? Because I think that it is important to take care of yourself. The older I get, the more I realize, yo, you gotta take better care of yourself. Because in order for me to be youthful in my...
Roberta (14:14)
Yeah.
absolutely.
Hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sonia (14:40)
to pursue the things I want, no matter how old I am. My body has to allow me to do that. And if I am focused on taking care of my health, because I haven't, then that's other things I can't focus on, because I'm trying to freaking live. I'm trying not to die early. So I think there's, yeah, I think there's, I love seeing older women. When I say older, I'm like 80.
90 year olds.
Roberta (15:09)
I love how the like,
what's old shifts throughout life.
Sonia (15:15)
It's not me. Or whatever. That's not me, you're right. But I love seeing them living their best life. And to me, it's less about the physical of the old and it's more about the spirit. Because to me, I mean, if you chasing the physical, I'm like, that could be a distraction too. You always trying to nip, tuck, pluck.
Roberta (15:17)
Right, whatever I am right now, add about 20 or 30. That ain't me.
Yeah.
Sonia (15:42)
plop something into youthfulness. But let me say, I do not disagree with those things. I don't think that aging gracefully means that you have to accept every wrinkle, right? Maybe you accept fewer wrinkles, but.
Roberta (15:59)
How about
say, where do you draw the line? Like what is graceful versus not graceful?
Sonia (16:03)
Nicole
Kidman.
Roberta (16:07)
Okay, that's the
Sonia (16:10)
Look, I love Lioness,
but looking at Nicole Kidman, I'm like, girl, does your face move?
Roberta (16:13)
She actually, she
fixed her face since, did you see her on, what is it, Nine Perfect Strangers? All these actresses are finding the surgeons. Like Lindsay Lohan, she's found, she looks great. But like compared to what she looked like before.
Sonia (16:26)
she looks great. no. Donatella
Versace. Did you see her new face? my God. I don't know what, I didn't even know they could reverse it. So, but that's what I mean. That's, we're getting off to, where do you draw the line? Donatella Versace. But I think that, I guess where I draw the line is, I think that at a certain point you have to,
Roberta (16:32)
I've heard about her, I haven't seen her new face.
There's surgeons out there for everything. Right. Exactly. It is right.
Sonia (16:55)
You cannot pull your, you can't pull your face enough to prevent every wrinkle, right? I think there is beauty in getting older. And I think the more you try to prevent getting older by nip, know, injecting yourself, the less youthful you actually look. You just look like an old person who did too much.
Roberta (17:21)
I mean, you gotta find the right surgeon. Demi Moore, she was the other one too. I don't know who got her to do her. Anyway.
Sonia (17:29)
I think Demi Moore looks great. I mean, the last time I saw her, I haven't seen her.
Roberta (17:31)
Now? Right. A
couple years ago she had some bad work done. Anyway, I am very much torn between because I do feel like and I guess it's the most important part but like spiritually, energetically, physically to the point where like I'm moving and I can get around and I can do all the things. Like I feel no different than I did 10, 20 years ago. It's literally the signs of aging that bother me.
Because I feel like what's on the outside and what people see and the first thing they see doesn't match what I'm energetically, spiritually bringing forward.
Sonia (18:02)
Right.
You know, and I, what I wonder about you is does your focus on the physicality of aging have to do with the fact that you hang out with a lot of younger people? You hang out with a lot of 30 year olds and is that, is that prompting you to put more emphasis on the physical because you're hanging out with people who are 10, 15 years younger than you.
Roberta (18:21)
So, okay.
Or am I doing that so that I can feel younger? I don't know. I don't have the answer to that. I feel like the main reason above anything else and me being in my head about anything, I don't actually go out looking for 30 year olds to hang out with. But like, I think that part is more a reflection of my lifestyle. And that is what I'm aligned with. my energetically and like all the things I just so happen to attract people.
Sonia (18:37)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Roberta (19:01)
that are younger in like age, whether that be friends or romantically or whatever, but I think it matches that. And also, again, like I'm not married, I don't have kids, and so most of my friends that are married with kids and all, like that are my age are off doing, they have very different lifestyles, right? So it's like the people that are out here being wild and free just happen to be like 30.
Sonia (19:04)
Mm-hmm.
Me. I'm one of those people. Yeah.
Is that what you consider yourself wild and free?
Roberta (19:28)
Always.
If I ever stop being that, when you first met me, I was not wild and free.
Sonia (19:34)
You were, that's a good point. I feel like you're Benjamin Button when it comes to this. Look at you, aging backwards.
Roberta (19:38)
I've aged, I've definitely energetically,
spiritually, I have definitely aged backwards. Because when you met me, I was a 45 year old white woman.
Sonia (19:44)
Wait, when I wait, let me tell it. Let me tell it.
was Martha Stewart. When I first met Roberta, when we were 24, we were 24, 25. She was married. She was, she had a huge house in the suburbs, right? We were in, this was in grad school. We all lived in the city. She lived in the suburbs. She had a dog. She had a Volvo. I don't know what you had. Was it a Volvo?
Roberta (19:54)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
No, it was a
Lexus truck.
Sonia (20:13)
A Lexus truck. and you were cardigans, right? You shot.
Roberta (20:16)
I work hard against around my shoulder, not on
mind you, but wrapped around, girl.
Sonia (20:23)
at 24.
Roberta (20:25)
Have my hair up in a bun and I wore glasses.
Sonia (20:27)
Yes, that was you. And now you're completely different. And that's what I like about you, because you, even your evolution from that, you know, from being, you know, a step-ford wife to where you are now, I'm like, you have evolved so much and lived a completely different life. the interesting part about it is you've always lived an interesting life. you've, even when you, when you tell me about your childhood, I'm like...
Roberta (20:43)
180.
Sonia (20:57)
It's very different from my childhood. But we're getting off topic. So back to aging, right? I think, yes, you are wild and free and it's like.
Roberta (20:58)
Hmm. I know, I know.
Yes.
Sonia (21:09)
You said that's who's attracted to me, but also that's who I think you're also seeking, right? I think you're seeking that. Yeah. And, and, you, get what you, what you're seeking, which is to be, to live this life where you stay out. And I mean, you told me about one of your Saturdays and I was like, hell no. I'm gonna need a nap somewhere in between activity two and activity four. Like, why are they all back to back? Like, but anyway.
Roberta (21:14)
sure some of that in there.
Right, right.
Sonia (21:36)
so we want to, we have out here to talk about like how aging impacts your day to day life. so how do you think about aging or how do you see that manifesting in your day to day life?
Roberta (21:44)
Yes.
Well, literally day to day, it's a lot of effort and cost of skincare, like products. And there is no shortage of different products out there that you can buy and slap on your face to try to like do whatever, combat wrinkles, sagging, whatever. So it's a lot of effort, effort in that, you know, I got to get up earlier to do all the skincare routines or like, you know, delays when I can go to sleep and...
Sonia (21:54)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Roberta (22:18)
doing makeup and all that. So anyway, so that's a lot on a day to day, but also like generally it's in my awareness because I'm single and dating and a part of that is wanting to be attractive and in my mind, which I don't think is like too far off from most people is like you equate being attractive with being youthful. And so yeah, it impacts me daily.
Sonia (22:32)
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Do
you think that, because you have a tendency, or at least in your more recent dating, you have a tendency to date younger men. Men that are, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. But it's recent! Like is that on purpose or has that just happened?
Roberta (22:52)
Two! Two younger men!
It is recent. the last, no,
no, the one that my ex, we met on Instagram. And so we connected over like-minded stuff. We connected over yoga and that lifestyle and spirituality. And we had very common like stories and backgrounds. And so we connected off. I had no idea how old he was. He didn't know how old I was.
Sonia (23:05)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Roberta (23:21)
And similarly, like, yeah, more recently, the person I'm seeing now is, I mean, we met through the industry that I'm in. It wasn't like I was on a dating app and I just put it down to like a certain age range. Like I don't do that at all. But also like if I'm whoever I'm with romantically or friends for that matter, because I have a lot of my girlfriends I realize are like a lot of them are younger. It's being available to go out on a Wednesday night, a Tuesday night or whatever.
Sonia (23:30)
Right.
25 to 35, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Roberta (23:49)
and wanting to check out this new bar, this new restaurant, or do whatever.
Sonia (23:55)
I feel like older people will want to do that. There are older single women, but you know what? I feel like you're stereotyping your own kind it's not good.
Roberta (24:00)
They want to be inside by nine o'clock. I'm not leaving the house till like 10.
I mean, this is just my experience.
I would love to befriend people of all ages. I'm not like, whatever.
Not at all. I would love to have friends of all ages. if I look, listen, if I can find me a 60 year old that's gonna go with me to the gold clover on a Tuesday night, let's do it.
Sonia (24:26)
Who can kick it?
Okay, I'm hold you to it. But that wouldn't be me though.
Roberta (24:33)
Okay, so.
Sonia (24:36)
I think for me, like the different, the way the aging impacts me is it's not the makeup, it's the skincare, right? I do agree with you there because I, look, I will invest in some skincare because I want to preserve, right? What is happening here. And also I'm like, I want to take care of it. I don't want to be ashy, you know, as I grow older. I don't want to be wrinkly and ashy. So I do want to preserve what I have. And honestly, you know, the skin is all, I've always been lucky in that regard that I don't have terrible skin.
Roberta (24:36)
Exactly.
Sonia (25:06)
But I'm like I want to keep it, people always talk about peri-menopause change and everything I'm like Can't change this Lord. No
Roberta (25:12)
Something I read that
like you hit, there's like certain age points where you see a dramatic drop off. Like year to year, you don't see like that much of a difference, but I wanna say what I read was 44 or was it 40? Okay, something like the biggest difference. And honestly, I see the difference in my face. Yes.
Sonia (25:17)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it was 45. Yeah. It was like 44, 45 is when you see the biggest difference.
Yeah, and the next one is 60 is
when you see the biggest jumps or you feel the biggest effects.
of aging. And I think for me, when it comes to aging, I don't think about my face that much or it comes in. I think about my weight, right? I think about my weight a lot. and I've come full circle when it comes to my weight. Like I, you know, there were times where I thought I was too skinny, right? I had chicken legs and I wouldn't wear shorts. And then I was too fat and I wouldn't wear shorts. And then I thought, look, this is, this is going to be funny.
Roberta (25:41)
Right.
Sonia (26:08)
There were, so I'm very curvy if you've never seen me in person. I have, you know, T&A all day. I don't lack for any of that. Like, why are y'all here going and buying it? The Lord blessed me with both bountiful.
But I used to, I'll never forget when I was younger in my career, I'm like, my God, my body is so unprofessional because everything was like my pants was tight and it made my, everything made my, accentuated my curves, my dress, my, but I had to get over it. I had to get over that. Yeah. I was really, you know, self-conscious about going into work and being taken seriously or not being a stereotype because I just, cause I have a big butt and boobs. So yeah, I used to think my
Roberta (26:28)
Aww.
Like self-conscious, yeah.
Yeah,
Sonia (26:51)
my
body was unprofessional, which is terrible. It's a terrible thing. It is. But now...
Roberta (26:52)
I... aw.
That's terrible.
Sonia (27:00)
When I think about my weight and as it relates to aging, I think I've shifted my focus, right? I definitely want to, you know, be a healthy weight and I would love to be my goal weight again. But what's more important to me is having a body that works, having a body that's strong, that is reliable, that will take me through the day, right? I can walk five miles, I can stand up for hours.
and did not make my legs swell up to sausages. That kind of thing is what I value so much more than being a particular size. I could do push-ups, could, know, being strong to me and not being feeble.
Roberta (27:43)
The strength, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Sonia (27:48)
It's something I equate with being older. I never want to be feeble. I want to be strong. I want to be able to move my body. I want to be able to go somewhere, go and do whatever I want and not have my body prevent me from doing that. And then the other thing I think about when it comes to aging is my mortality. And that's really tied to what I just said about my body and my health.
Roberta (27:51)
Yeah.
Sonia (28:13)
My, think about growing older and not being able to see my kids grow up or will I be able to see them have kids or, I have friends who lost parents when we were in high school. you know, every time, you hear somebody who dies at 50, you're like.
Roberta (28:19)
Yeah.
Hmm.
Right,
I'm not ready for that phase of life. Like, I can't. I don't know. I know.
Sonia (28:31)
Yeah, we're already there. Like people die at 50,
at 40, and you just like, my God, it just hits a little bit closer to home to me. So to me, that's how I think about aging. But, know, I know that's super serious. I've kind of brought down the mood a little bit.
Roberta (28:37)
Right.
Right.
Not at all. okay, so what, but what
do you do about that or what with that feeling? Like, what do you, do you like work out more? Do you try to like, how, top of mind is it?
Sonia (29:05)
It's not something I think about every day. Because the other thing about me taking care of my body is I have adjusted to, because I've been working out so long, being active has been a part of my life for so long that if I don't do it, I feel weird. I feel sluggish. It is the thing that literally gives me energy. When I come home from the gym, Derrick is like, I need you to calm down, okay? I need you to calm down.
Roberta (29:21)
Mm-hmm.
Sonia (29:31)
I'm dancing, I'm like, that's me.
Roberta (29:33)
See, okay, so apparently that's when I need to hit you up to go
out, is when you like come from the gym. I mean, like, let's go out.
Sonia (29:38)
Yeah, hit
me up at 7 AM when I get home from the gym at 6 30. Hit me up AM. That's what I'm doing. but you know, having said that though, you know, just going back to the aging gracefully thing, I don't think that there's anything wrong with doing things to preserve your youth, but
I was like, how far are you willing to go? How far are you willing to go to preserve your youth?
Roberta (30:09)
I've
already found my plastic surgeon. For a facelift?
Sonia (30:11)
To do what exactly?
At what, so first of all, I feel like you, it's too early to think about a facelift. At what age?
Roberta (30:20)
No, that's why they call it preventative.
You don't want to wait till everything is all sagging and drooping to like pick it up. You got to like do like little things so that you're not looking like Nicole Kidman out here. You got to like, no, no, no. Because I mean, I got, so I had my plastic surgery done when I was 25 and it didn't, it was just like, okay, I did what I needed to do. I feel good about myself. I didn't need it anymore.
Sonia (30:31)
I feel like that's gonna lead you to look like Nicole Kim, Donatella?
Okay. And now that you're 25 years later, 20 years later, right? So how far, so when you say you found your plastic surgery surgeon, when are you planning to have this procedure?
Roberta (30:52)
Right.
I'm thinking 48-ish, so maybe in the other two years. So I thought about either threading. So it's like basically like taking like little stitches like threading and like pulling like little micro needles and like ever so slightly across, like pulling it up. Cause I don't want to do fillers. I don't want to do anything. People look crazy with fillers.
Sonia (31:07)
And what would you be doing exactly to your face?
What the heck is that?
You can't do Botox,
doesn't that?
Roberta (31:30)
I don't want to
do, but I haven't done anything yet. So I haven't done Botox. I haven't done fillers. I don't want to do anything in like injections because what I've seen like before and afters it's too much. Like you don't look like yourself anymore. You look puffy and we, I don't know. Right. Exactly. I don't want to do that. And so the...
Sonia (31:39)
Yeah.
Yeah. You look puffy. Lucky you have an allergic reaction all the time in your face, but you're willing to put
thread at the base of your forehead and pull it back. Got it.
Roberta (31:57)
Because my issue, what I feel like my issue is, it's not like wrinkles, it's more like sagging. So what I've noticed is like this part is starting to sag more. And so it's starting to look not like me. So if I could get a facelift to kind of bring that up and like sharpen those areas again, like sharpen my jaw, then that's probably what I'll do.
Sonia (32:03)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Right.
Mm-hmm.
See, you don't have a fear that he gonna pull it a little too tight and you gonna be looking like a cat woman.
Roberta (32:26)
Well, that's
why you got to find the right person.
Sonia (32:28)
How did you
find this person? Why did you decide that this is the right person to do your plastic surgery?
Roberta (32:34)
well, I found this person like on social media. I mean, but that it didn't start and like start and stop there. It just, you know, I was like, who's this person? Do research. Same way I found my tattoo artist. Like I was like, this person looks interesting. She does what I like. Let me find out more. So it's really doing research, but also let me caveat to the fact that I have had plastic surgery before. I think I have more of a tolerance to that.
Sonia (32:37)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Roberta (32:58)
or like just open this to it because I'm just like well you know I've done it before it's not that big of a deal. Yeah.
Sonia (32:58)
Mm-hmm
Right. Do you feel
like you would know if you've gone too far with your face and do you want to have a friend to tell you when that's happened?
Roberta (33:14)
Yeah, I love how you ask a question, but really I will be that friend that tells you. I think I have enough like of a judgment to be like, but I mean also it's hard to like scale it back. Like once you've already crossed the line of too much, it's hard to bring it back. So I'm very cautious in that way and I'm only going to do like a little, little, little, little bit. I would never do anything like drastic, but also I would.
Sonia (33:16)
Can I be?
See ya.
Yeah.
Like how do
you know? Like I know you haven't, you don't know because you haven't done it. You haven't gone too far yet.
Roberta (33:45)
Right, there's only, it's like
one of things. Well, I was terrified when I got my nose done because it's like, it's right in the middle of my face. Like if he messes this up, then like, what else are people gonna look at? So I made sure that I found a really good doctor that I saw all his before and afters, like all his before and afters. And this is before, honestly, and it's harder now to find a good surgeon because like back when I had this done in 2004,
Sonia (33:51)
Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Bye.
Roberta (34:09)
all the before and afters were actual before and afters. They weren't like photoshopped or had some kind of filter or kind of like, I feel like some people like what people are putting out there now is like, I did this work. Yeah, like on your computer, like, know, like it's just not right. It's not very accurate. So it makes it a lot harder to find a good person. but before when I did it, it was pretty straightforward. but yeah, I was always looking for subtle.
Sonia (34:14)
Mm-hmm. All right.
Hey Photoshop faith to me
Okay. Like I am not,
I don't think I'll ever get a facelift cause I just, it's just the surgery part. I'm like, and then I have this, but I've seen really good facelifts on, on Instagram. I just saw this lady. my God. Jesus.
Roberta (34:40)
This is it, yeah.
I have a whole folder saved of facelifts and facial massage.
Have you done that?
Sonia (34:53)
No, I don't like people touching my face.
Roberta (34:56)
No, no, you do it yourself. So
there's like apps, there's whole apps for this and they'll teach you what things to do. The stuff that Tracy Ellis would be doing, she'd be having a thing and going up in the guasha and the whole everything, like that kind of stuff.
Sonia (35:11)
To be honest, I probably would have a facelift before I did all that. just don't have the patience to be like, ooh, and this.
Roberta (35:15)
It's lot of effort. It's a lot of effort. Exactly.
I have two tools. have a, I have sharing all the things. So, you know, have you ever had cupping done like on your body?
Sonia (35:27)
Yeah, I mean, I've no, I've never had it, but I know what it is. Yeah.
Roberta (35:29)
Okay,
so they make those little things, like the little suction cup things for your face. And so you put it on your face and it's so it like pulls and like lifts up. So I have one of those tools that I got from, this is another thing too. I belong to, I have a monthly facial membership. So I do that. Yeah, so I do that. Right, right, just okay. That's graceful. That's demure.
Sonia (35:34)
And what is it supposed to do?
That's fine, yeah. That's fine, as if I'm giving you permission. That's okay. Yes, check.
It's okay. No.
Roberta (35:57)
So
I have that and I have one of those infrared light thingies.
Sonia (36:02)
You really going all in. I'm, I'm, I feel like I'm lazy. I feel like I need to step it up.
Roberta (36:04)
This is what I'm saying, the effort. No,
it's just me being like in my head about
Sonia (36:11)
Yeah, but that's what I mean. well, I'd rather you do those things than go too far with surgery, right? And I don't have a, I don't have any problem. Look, you do whatever you want, not you, but anybody out there, do whatever you want to your face, do whatever you want to your body at the end of the day. But I just would hope that people would not try to chase perfection.
Roberta (36:21)
Right.
Right. Right.
Sonia (36:35)
There's no such thing as perfection. And just learn to, you know, love the imperfections. And it sounds very woo woo, I get it. And also, yeah. Right.
Roberta (36:44)
I mean, I'm the queen of woo woo, but like, it's not even about perfection. It's for me,
it's about maintaining the, the appearance of the person that I originally knew and fell in love with. So when I was in my teens and twenties, evolve? Sure. I just, I don't know. I just have a...
Sonia (36:59)
But don't you think that person's gonna always change? Yeah.
You
can't fall in love with a new version of yourself. You like, I like this version.
Roberta (37:10)
I mean, I guess that's the goal. Right?
Sonia (37:15)
I don't know what the other version looked like.
Roberta (37:17)
of her.
Sonia (37:22)
get it, I mean look, cause I think we have on here, like, would you take weight loss drugs? And look, at this point, no, I would not take weight loss drugs because I still have it in my mind that I can do it if I, you know, if I tweaked my eating, if I do better. And plus I don't.
Roberta (37:27)
Hmm.
Sonia (37:38)
feel like I've gotten to the point where I need it. Like if my blood pressure spiked and and the diabetes was knocking on the door, I'd be like, give me the drugs. Okay. I'd rather take these weight loss drugs than to take insulin or to take, you know, to have high blood pressure or to have a stroke. Yeah.
Roberta (37:41)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
That's less about appearance and more about health. I mean, that I get,
like, totally.
Sonia (37:59)
Yeah, and that's what
I, for sure, that's what I am. I wouldn't do it for vanity reasons, I don't think. Now ask me in two years as I keep gaining five pounds every year. Then ask me, I may change my mind and be like, give me all the GLP ones or whatever they're called. But I think that, you know, for the most part, you know, and...
Roberta (38:07)
Right. Right. Exactly. Right.
Sonia (38:23)
I keep saying I wouldn't have a tummy tuck just because I just feel uncomfortable about, like I've watched people get, I watched a lot of surgeries on Instagram and people's weight loss, like what happens after they get the tummy tuck and I'm just like, ooh, that's a lot, that's a lot. yeah, to me it's not worth it, but you know what I would have done? Lipos.
Roberta (38:31)
Interesting.
Sonia (38:46)
in my thighs
Roberta (38:50)
They're different from a tummy tuck.
Sonia (38:53)
Because lipo, they're just sucking it out. Yeah. Tummy tuck, they gotta slice you and then take, take off the fat part of your stomach, slice that out like a piece of meat, sew you back together.
Roberta (38:56)
Hurrah.
Sonia (39:09)
And tight, mm-mm, that's too much. I can't do all that. Sounds terrible. And maybe I don't feel like that feels very like scary to me because I never had a C-section. So I've never been cut there. But I feel like, look, and also I feel like I'm still shapely. Like yeah, my stomach is poochy, but.
Roberta (39:20)
Hmm, I mean neither have I, I don't know. Sure.
You haven't gotten the mom
bods at us yet.
Sonia (39:33)
Yeah, because clearly I'd never even heard of a mombod, but I'm not there yet. Yeah, send me a picture of a mombod, please. And let me know, because I don't know. So we had on here prevention. Did we talk about prevention? So do you consider you sewing the top of your face or the perimeter of your head? Do you consider that preventative?
Roberta (39:36)
I'm gonna send you a picture. I'm gonna look up this picture.
That is prevention, yes.
Sonia (40:00)
It is? Why?
Roberta (40:03)
I mean that is like to me top tier prevention, prevention of what? Right? Okay. Prevention of my face sagging, of having jowls and all the things. So yes, it's preventing that thing, which is probably ultimately going to happen anyway. but I mean, that's like a more extreme prevention. I think everyday like normal prevention is taking so I take, collagen. I put collagen every morning in my coffee.
Sonia (40:09)
Yeah.
okay. Okay.
Right.
Right.
Hmm.
Roberta (40:32)
I
mean it does also have the added benefit of like good joint health and like other kind of bone health but like the main thing for me is the vanity and like maintaining elasticity of my skin and I've been doing that okay this is my okay I'm gonna share something this might be like extreme prevention but things that like I think have been helpful for my skin my face one I've been using sunblock on my face religiously since I was about 25 26 every day
Sonia (40:39)
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Yeah. You look good.
Roberta (41:02)
The other thing is retinol.
And I've been using retinol for like probably almost 15 years in some form or fashion. They've gotten better in their products.
Sonia (41:10)
15
years of retinol? I've just discovered retinol last week. What? Wait
Roberta (41:13)
Girl, I'm probably gonna get cancer at some point because like all the chemicals I've been putting on my
face.
I mean, I won't get like sun damage, like that kind of cancer, but all the chemicals I've been putting on my face, you kidding me? all, we, Gen X.
Sonia (41:30)
I can't believe you've
been using retinol that long. Like you go to the store, didn't even, seriously, I literally, who was giving you this? Why?
Roberta (41:34)
Yah, yah, No, I've been getting, girl, I've been getting prescription grade.
Dermatologists, they don't care. As long as you pay in their premium,
whatever. To maintain, prevention, to maintain.
Sonia (41:50)
Okay, I literally just learned about retinol. Look, I thought retinol was something white women needed. I don't even, I did, because that's what was in the commercials, white women. I was like, black women don't need retinol.
Roberta (42:02)
Look, Well, let me find out that
all them black women out here, the reason why we ain't cracking is because we've been using retin-A since we've been 23. Who knows? Yeah.
Sonia (42:11)
Apparently, I just feel like when
you're that young, why do you need it? Like prevent what at 25? Prevent what at 35?
Roberta (42:17)
Preventing the wrinkles,
preventing the wrinkles, preventing the sagging. I do, yeah. I mean, time will tell, who knows when I'm 80, if I make it that long. But like, yeah, I think, I mean, if I'm just talking about health implications of all these chemicals I've been using, both like, because I also take another like a hair supplement. I color my hair, that's prevention.
Sonia (42:22)
Do you feel like it worked? Was it worth it? okay.
and you can't have wrinkles at 80, that is unacceptable.
You
Mm-hmm.
That's
prevention. Yep. I do prevention, I don't, but I just started mine. I just started mine, my prevention. No, well, you talking about you've been doing retinol for 15 years. Like, like I just discovered retinol. I am consistent with my skincare. I do use a, I do use collagen. I do use vitamin C, you know, exfoliate, you know, the...
Roberta (42:45)
Well yeah, there's a lot of things that...
So what are you trying to say?
Yeah.
All that.
Sonia (43:09)
You know, all of that, all of the things I do, I am much better about, sunscreen. I wasn't always, but I am now. So those are the things. Minding my business, drinking my water. Hopefully that preserves me for as long as it takes. Yeah. And honestly, I look, I don't know. It's hard for me to say what I won't do because I'm not there yet. Right?
Roberta (43:18)
drinking my water, minding my business, all of that.
Mmm. Mmm. I put the lugless in.
Sonia (43:38)
I can't see myself getting a facelift. I don't know, because I don't know anybody in my family who's ever had one. Yeah, okay. It is, it's a luxury, for sure.
Roberta (43:47)
Neither do I. Again, that's a luxury. That's a privilege. Also, the doctor that I found,
he's in Alabama, I think, for the one photo that like he did all the things. It was $20,000.
Sonia (43:56)
Yeah. hell no. I'd rather
be doing, that's another thing. I look, I'd rather be doing other things with that 20,000. I'm not gonna drop it on making my face wrinkle for what? Look at this face. If you don't like it, fine. If I don't like it, I'd rather be doing something else with that $20,000. I just, I just would. Okay. So.
Roberta (44:20)
Amen.
Sonia (44:23)
We talked about prevention and how far we're going to go, right, with it. How do you embrace being older? What do you embrace about growing older, Roberta? I want to hear it.
Roberta (44:32)
What I got now?
Sonia (44:40)
Don't act like it's such a chore
Roberta (44:44)
are things that I embrace. I embrace the wisdom part. I embrace more the internal things which I think is more important anyway. Like I embrace having the wisdom. What's funny and I give an example is I love I love social media and I love the fact that other women's especially black women are out here spreading positivity and affirmations and
Sonia (44:51)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Roberta (45:08)
sharing their journeys and a lot of these women are in their late 20s, early 30s and the stuff that they're saying that they've discovered, I'm like, girl, I figured that out 15 years ago. We need to have a TED Talk. I'm embracing that part of me because I've learned so much from life and it's because I've lived the life. Wholeheartedly embrace all of that. My spirituality, my...
Sonia (45:09)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Roberta (45:33)
From me growing from the person that you knew in grad school to the person that's sitting here now, I embrace that and all the aging that had to happen between then and now.
Sonia (45:39)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mm-hmm. You know, that was very deep. And while you were thinking about that, I appreciate all that, and I'm gonna comment on that. But I did find, I did think of one thing that I would do, cosmetic surgery-wise, my boobs. If my boobs ever got down to my knees, them suckers coming up. Like.
Roberta (45:55)
Okay.
yeah. I would absolutely
get my boobs done. I thought about doing that anyway. I just, you know.
Sonia (46:07)
I still have nice boobs. don't need to... I don't know, I am gonna brag on you, but they're still sitting.
Roberta (46:12)
I mean...
Yeah, don't have, yeah, I mean, you know, it's kind of a non-factor for me. don't, it's just like, all right, girl. But also I don't like to have that much attention on me. That's the other thing too, it's just like, it's a balance for me because it's like, I don't like to be the center of attention. I don't like people to look at me. That's probably the main reason why I haven't gotten a boob job to this point. Cause you know, I don't want that kind of attention.
Sonia (46:20)
My god.
I feel like I'm loopy, yes.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I don't think you need one either. I feel like you have nice boobs. What do I embrace about growing older? All of those things you said, just being smarter, being wiser, making better decisions, right? I feel like, you know, just being a part of the 92%. Being the wise person in the room. The other thing I embrace about getting older is I feel like I'm way more relaxed.
Roberta (46:57)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Because you learn, you have gone through all the battles and all the wars and you realize what's worth it and what is not. Whoo, it's crystal clear. It's just like, would... Chill out.
Sonia (47:06)
I done chilled the eff out. Like chill out, calm down, okay?
what is worth it and what is not, right? It's like chill out.
Yes, even at work, they're like, I'm just more of myself. I'm sorry guys, this is who I am. If you don't like that I play R &B in my office, it's my office, you leave. Correct, whatever it is, I need to get through the day.
Roberta (47:37)
You can leave.
I would have never
thought that or said that. I would have never said that, but at 25, 30, I would have never.
Sonia (47:47)
Yeah, for sure.
No, was gray suits, blue suits, pinstripes.
Roberta (47:50)
It was crazy. Yeah, do whatever I need to do
to like fit in or not rock the boat.
Sonia (47:55)
Yeah,
that's what I embrace about.
You know, I embrace that, like just being chill. You know, I also, you know, embrace the fact that I'm smarter with money. I'm smarter with the decisions that I make. I, you know, appreciate the smaller things in life, my friendships more. I put less, less pressure on my friendships than I did in the past. I don't overthink. I used to be a chronic overanalyzer. I probably still am in some,
Roberta (48:25)
Yeah you were. I mean a
little bit.
good in a good way.
Sonia (48:30)
Yeah. No. Sorry. We are reaching the end of this podcast. Yes. I, yes, there are so many things to embrace about being older. And at the end of the day, I just, I feel like do whatever makes you feel comfortable. But the only thing I would say is just make sure that you're doing it for the right reasons, for the reasons that.
Roberta (48:43)
so many things about.
Yeah.
Sonia (48:59)
make sense to you, the reasons that you won't regret, the reasons that are outside of you. That's all I would say. Like do whatever you do, whatever you want, as long as you feel good about it and you're clear headed and healthy, you know.
Roberta (49:06)
Mm. Mm.
I mean, that's the hardest part out of anything, making sure that you are clear headed and you know what's right for you. I mean, do that before you make any decisions.
Sonia (49:22)
Yeah.
Yeah, I do. So what do you want to challenge our listeners to do now that we've reached the end of the podcast? What do you want to challenge them to do around aging? I don't have a CTA this week. I'm going leave that all up to you. What do you want them to do?
Roberta (49:34)
Eugh.
So for me, this topic and this episode has made me aware of where I have hangups and where I'm insecure. And so I would encourage listeners to lean into that as well, to kind of get past the superficial parts of aging and really think about what are the things about you that you're insecure about.
Sonia (49:56)
Mm-hmm.
Roberta (50:12)
and take an honest evaluation of the things and activities you do to preserve your youth and why you do those things. Like what are you trying to preserve? and if, if it's working for you, great. But if not, I would, you know, implore you to explore a little bit further, you know, how is it serving you? and is it possible for you to
Sonia (50:20)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Roberta (50:41)
resolve those insecurities in other ways other than surgery or like whatever, know, of preserving a certain physical aging thing. So yeah, my call to action for this time is self-reflection about where do you fall into traps of aging and anti-aging and why.
Sonia (50:47)
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Right. That's a good one. That's a good one. This was a, this was a fun conversation. So.
Roberta (51:06)
This is a fun one. I was letting out all
my secrets lately. Still can't get my last name though.
Sonia (51:14)
It's okay, we'll get it eventually. So thank you guys for joining us for another episode and we will see you next time.
