75. Table for One: Embracing Solo Travel

In this episode of the Grown and Growing podcast, we dive into the rise of solo travel, especially among women. We explore why it’s becoming so popular and all the ways it can be a life-changing experience. We also tackle common barriers like safety concerns and cost, sharing practical tips to make solo adventures more approachable.

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Transcript

Sonia (00:16)
Welcome back to the Grown and Growing podcast. I'm Sonia Hamlin. One day I'm just not gonna say my last name. I can't help it. It's like a song. It's all good. I know. All right. Let's get into this topic. So one of the things that people...

Roberta (00:21)
and I'm Roberta.

Okay, it just rolls on out.

Sonia (00:34)
ask me a topic that people ask me to do all the time is solo travel. Every time I poll my audience, it's on the list. So I'm like, you are the perfect person to have this conversation with. So, but before we get into talking about, solo travel, I do want to touch on why the heck is so popular. And I was looking up some facts before we hopped on this, on the podcast and

Solo travel really became popular after the pandemic. So after COVID, one of the first places they noticed that they saw an increase was online searches for the term solo female travel. They said in the four years after the pandemic, the searches for those terms increased sixfold. So people were like, we ready to get up out of here.

Roberta (01:20)
Okay. Wait,

Who's they? They said, who's they?

Sonia (01:23)
this was on Forbes, excuse me. I'm sorry, I gotta cite my sources. Let me do that. yes, yes, the people who, where I got this little fact from, which was Forbes Magazine.

Roberta (01:25)
I'm just curious.

No, I just wonder who they talking about. I mean, you know, they talking about us. Who they? But anyway.

Got it, okay, incredible.

Sonia (01:39)
Then yes, we try to be credible here sometimes. The next fact that I have is from the US consumer travel report. There you go, Roberta, there's your source. It says that solo travel is specifically increasing in those aged 55 and older. And in 2023 specifically, they traveled WITHOUT their partner 46 % more than in 2022. So people were like, you stay at home. I need to go by myself.

Roberta (01:48)
Hmm?

it.

Sonia (02:06)
And then this last fact is from the Road Scholar, which says that among those older adults, 85 % of solo travelers are women. That's crazy actually. When I think about it, why do you, first of all,

Roberta (02:17)
Hmm, yeah, you know how it is.

Sonia (02:22)
I love that women are out here just like, look, we're picking up, we're going, we're getting out of here, probably now more than ever. But the fact that 85 % of travelers or of those travelers were women is crazy because I think that travel is something that can benefit everybody. Like everybody could see it as a life-changing experience. Everybody could want to do it, right? Everybody can get something out of it. Yeah.

Roberta (02:24)
Exactly. We're getting out.

yeah, some people wanna change it up, get a new experience, do something different.

Absolutely.

Sonia (02:49)
Yeah,

but we don't talk about men. We don't ever talk about men like it being a phenomenon with men.

Roberta (02:56)
Because I think that's just like a given like men are just gonna get up and go and do whatever they want I mean not for nothing. I mean we come from a long line of Hunters and gatherers the men went out and and foraged and the women stayed at home I mean even like recent history women couldn't even live on their own or have their own bank accounts until You know, they were out of either with a parent or with a husband. So, I mean, it's not you know, I blame patriarchy, you know, that's that's my answer

Sonia (03:06)
Yeah. Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, got it. Look, patriarchy

is responsible for a lot of things. So I definitely agree. And I think like you're right, men have been able to like roam and conquer and pillage. This is all that sounds like very like colonialism for centuries. Like they've always roamed the country for centuries. And then what I'll also add to that, like patriarchy definitely, but

Roberta (03:37)
I mean...

Sonia (03:46)
This other thing that I'm thinking about also kind of stems from patriarchy. It's the fact that women have all, people have always seen women as needing to be protected, right? How do we protect women? How do we keep them safe? I mean, we all know it's a load of crap, but. But the.

Roberta (03:55)
Mm-hmm.

That's a fallacy, right.

Sonia (04:02)
the stereotype of keeping women safe, I could see that kind of preventing people from wanting to travel or thinking that it isn't safe for women to travel because, you know, who is there to protect them from this big bad world? Right, right. From the male hands, okay? Not just the gaze. Men's hands. So the last interesting thing I found when I was researching for this episode was Tracey Ellis Ross. We love her.

Roberta (04:13)
from the male gaze. Right.

Love her. Icon. All of the things. Yes. All the things. All the things.

Sonia (04:25)
We love her, her style, her sense of humor, her hair, fashion. She just chef kiss.

Anyway, she has a travel show coming out called Tracy's Travels in 2025, which I'm like, I would love to see where she goes. Where do you go girl? What do you do? Now, right. And I don't know if we'll be able to see it cause it's on Roku and I don't have, I guess you don't have Roku either.

Roberta (04:38)
I love that.

Right. All of it will be entertaining.

I I might, girl I don't know. We're about to figure it out because I want to see it. Right.

Sonia (04:55)
Yeah, I definitely don't. So Tracy, make sure it's on YouTube, girl.

So we can all access it. And then, so I also found this was interesting. Black solo travelers on Lonely Planet, right? This is a travel site, popular travel site. So the black solo travelers on that site recommended the best destinations for solo travel. They listed six places. It's Accra, Ghana.

Roberta (05:01)
Great.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Sonia (05:21)
Lisbon, Portugal, Montreal, Canada, Thailand, Tokyo, and Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. So those are the top places. Have you been to any of those?

Roberta (05:32)
I have not been to either one of those countries. Well, yeah, I've been to Canada.

Sonia (05:38)
You've been to Canada.

Where have you been in Canada? Have you been to Montreal? No, you haven't. You said you haven't been.

Roberta (05:45)
I've been

to Montreal, wait, have I been to Canada?

Sonia (05:48)
Have you been to Canada? To see the falls? You've only looked at them from New York? Have you ever seen the falls?

Roberta (05:50)
I I have, I'm like wait a minute, I was supposed to go to Toronto, I don't know.

Right.

The back when I was with Brand USA, I don't know. I think so. I wouldn't count it. Canada, let's not count Canada because clearly I don't know. Right.

Sonia (06:03)
So you've never been to Canada? Wow, wow. I mean, that was the first place I was planning to run if things got

hot down here. Yeah, I think you would remember if you saw the falls. I think you would. So if you could pick one of those six places, like real quick, which one would you go? Where would you go?

Roberta (06:15)
I know, I know.

Portugal

hands down. I've been wanting to go to Portugal for the last like three years and I'm definitely definitely down putting it out there June I would say like June July because I feel like that's the best time to go going to Portugal next year

Sonia (06:32)
Mm-hmm.

Why? is it about Portugal?

Roberta (06:35)
think it's very dynamic. You can get a range of experiences. mean, the food there is really good. The wine, of course, love wine. But then you can go, you can have the Porto, can have Lisbon. Like there's different areas within the country that you can go to.

Sonia (06:49)
Is it is it city or is it inland or is it like near the coast? Okay

Roberta (06:52)
You can get both experiences. can

get like six. When I was actually researched to go, it was, I could get like both experiences, like coastline and then also like central and just do that by train. So yeah, definitely want to do that.

Sonia (07:03)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

I think for me, I would definitely pick Japan, which might surprise some people, but because first of all, Japan just looks so cool. Tokyo looks like another planet and I definitely would be up for having an adventure. There's a part of me that's interested because my daughter is so interested and she's gotten me interested in it.

Roberta (07:11)
Hmm. Yeah, it surprises me.

It does.

Hmm. Ooh, mother-daughter

trip, solo trip.

Sonia (07:33)
Well, it's solo.

can she come if it's solo?

Roberta (07:36)
I don't know, I'm gonna say yes.

Sonia (07:38)
Okay, I mean, okay. Well, on that note then, how are we defining, since this podcast is about solo travel, how are you defining solo travel? How do you define it?

Roberta (07:39)
Why not?

Mmm.

Okay, so for me naturally, my mind gravitates towards like international, but I will say any trip within the US, if you're based in the US or international, I would say at least three days, right? So you can't just call it a solo thing if you spend, yeah, yeah, multiple days. That you spend like by yourself and like with yourself with no other specific plans. You you might meet up with someone, but the central core of it is you by yourself.

Sonia (08:05)
Like multiple days, yes.

Okay, that's fair. I would define it as that too. So Sienna, I'm sorry, mommy is going to Japan by herself. Maybe we'll go first and then I'll go again. I don't know.

Roberta (08:26)
I was just about to say,

do that, or, I mean, maybe by the time you go, like, you could go and then she can travel separately. I don't know. We'll figure it out. You go. You're both gonna end up going.

Sonia (08:32)
Yeah.

We'll figure it out.

Out of that list, I would go to Japan. Because also about Japan is, you also have beauty, right? There's so, like if you get outside of Tokyo, Kyoto, like there's just, you know, so much more you can see. Anyway, that's what I'll say about that. Now, the reason I think you're the perfect person to do this podcast, because I've sensed that you've gone on some solo trips. So, how many solo trips have you taken?

Roberta (08:38)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Okay, all right.

Ha ha ha.

I had to think about that one. So I would say upwards of about 15. But that includes, it is a lot. But also I've been traveling for like 25 years total. Girl, I don't even remember. But it was definitely domestic. For some reason I'm thinking like it was a city. So I've been mostly on the East Coast most of my life. So it was to like a city like Philly or New York or something. Like it was something like one or two days a weekend. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sonia (09:05)
Okay, that's a lot. That's a lot.

What was your first solo trip? Was it?

Mm-hmm. But were you in your 20s? You were like, okay, okay,

okay.

Roberta (09:30)
Yeah, and so that was like the first but they really weren't memorable because I just I don't know I just wasn't in the space to like be open enough to travel I think I was more insecure and like literally about safety about other things so it wasn't they're not really memorable for me

Sonia (09:45)
Mm-hmm.

What did you do while you were there? You just hung out? Okay.

Roberta (09:49)
Just hung out, yeah, just, I mean, mostly

eating and shopping, really, like at the time. Right, just, yeah, just hanging out.

Sonia (09:52)
No, no, no. Not bad things to do. When you're in your 20s, I mean.

So I've never taken a solo trip. I've never taken a solo leisurely trip. Like I've never planned a leisurely solo trip by the definition that we just gave. Never had those. So I have had business trips.

Roberta (10:01)
I cannot believe that.

Right.

But why?

Okay.

Sonia (10:16)
I don't know. I have

had business trips. So I've traveled for business, for work, multiple times, many cities, multiple days, but I spend the time in conferences. So I don't really count that. Right, it's not, it's definitely 75 25. Cause I do try to do something personal, right? Go to a restaurant, go to the spa, whatever. I'm hitting up something, right? I'm going to see a little bit of that city.

Roberta (10:21)
Okay.

Yeah, I would say I have to be more leisure than business.

Hmm.

Right.

Sonia (10:42)
But

I, so I was thinking about this. So why haven't I ever taken a solo trip? I think, so I think about it like this. In my twenties, I definitely missed the opportunity to travel solo. It wasn't even on my radar. It wasn't even on my radar to, to go somewhere by myself. So, and I think that would, if I'm thinking about my life now, that would have been the prime opportunity. But every time I traveled, it was either with my friends or my sisters or,

Roberta (11:04)
Mm.

Sonia (11:09)
you

know, my then boyfriend, So that was one. Then I got married and it just became hard. It wasn't harder to travel, right? But I would go to places, but it would be with my friends. So we would go somewhere, we would do something. And I was also, because I was married and maybe probably had kids then.

I just was tagging on to other people's trips. Like they would plan it and I'd be like, I'm going too. So that's how my trips happen. And then now I think I don't.

Roberta (11:33)
Hmm.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sonia (11:40)
I think I have the desire to do it. Like I want to, like I follow a lot of pages. Like there's this one girl I follow, can't remember her name right now, but she is, she's doing solo travel with a company and she lives in one country a month for 12 months. So she is living in a different country every month for 30 days and then she goes to the next. Now, luckily she likes the people she's traveling with, but it gives her a mix of like, you know, knowing people, having people

Roberta (11:43)
Mm-hmm.

Sonia (12:07)
people

there to like look out for her, but also she takes a lot of like solo side trips by herself. I freaking love her page. And I'm like, I wish I would have done that when I was her age. She quit her job. She lived in New York. She quit her job and was like, I only have one opportunity to do this. So I do think about it. Okay.

Roberta (12:13)
Mm-hmm.

That's risky. But so, okay, here's a question. Do

you think the recent itch or motivation to want to do it is because of something more internal, like your own desire to get out in the world and be more independent? Or is it because you just see so much content and so much social media influencers out here doing things that you're like, hmm, I kind of want to do that too. Are you being influenced?

Sonia (12:51)
I am, it's probably a little bit of both if I'm being honest. I travel, I follow solo travelers, but I'm just interested in travel in general. Like to me, it's not even, it is really based on me seeing the world. Like I wanna see the world. And I think it would be cool to.

Roberta (12:55)
Mm.

Sonia (13:10)
you know, to do something. It doesn't have to be solo. Honestly, when I'm looking at these places and I see this girl doing it, I don't know if I'm solo or not. All I'm thinking about is, wow, I need to go to that place. I need to see that. And the reason I don't think about solo travel in this moment that I'm in now, I see it in the future once my kids are grown. I don't see it now because I prioritize traveling with my kids. Then I prioritize traveling with Derrick so traveling solo is just not,

Roberta (13:14)
Yeah.

You want to go to that place? Yeah.

Okay.

I mean.

Sonia (13:37)
I'll tell you why, I'll tell you why. That does sound like, ooh, stand by my man, I can't do that. okay, Mm-hmm.

Roberta (13:41)
No, no, no, it doesn't sound like that. I mean, I didn't take it that way. It just made me feel

like, aw, like you're putting yourself, you know, tertiary to, you know, the travel with the kids and travel with the husband. I... Okay.

Sonia (13:54)
Yes and no. Yes and no.

And the other thing is, what I was gonna say about the husband is, we haven't traveled a lot internationally together. We have been to the Caribbean. That's it.

Roberta (14:05)
I gotta say, y'all got married, like, not in the US. Like, how?

Sonia (14:08)
Where we get married

in, say it with me, Caribbean. We've been to Mexico, right? We've been to Cabo. get, like we've been, and but we've been places individually. Like I've been to Spain and Paris and you know, we've been to Abu Dhabi, Dubai, right? I've been, right. Yes, not solo.

Roberta (14:10)
That counts!

Okay, first of all, that's more than most people like

Sonia (14:32)
They've just been trips and he's been to Africa, like he's been to multiple countries in Africa, he's been to London before. So he's had his own side trips as well. We just haven't done those things together. And there is a part of me who, that wants to do those things with him. Like I wanna see the world with him. So that's why.

Roberta (14:46)
Yeah. Aww.

I want that too. I've had more solo trips than I have bae-cations But I mean, has a benefit and some sort of like downside, everything in life. So I'm not like upset, upset about it because the things that I gleaned from like my solo travel have added to my life and enriched my life in so many ways.

Sonia (14:55)
Hmm. Is that right?

Yeah.

And you've seen so much of the world, right? You've seen so much of the world. I don't think there's anything, I don't feel like when you are, you know, looking over your life on your deathbed, that sounds sad. But I don't think that you'll regret it, right? You didn't wait for anybody, like, so, anyway.

Roberta (15:15)
seen so much of the world.

No, no, no, no, right, right. So, okay, that's

a good segue into talking about, all right, so why is solo travel considered life-changing? I mean, of the people on social media and people are talking about it, their comments and their summaries and everything are just like, this is so life-changing. And honestly, I would potentially use that phrase for maybe one or two trips that I've taken. Life-changing.

Sonia (15:38)
Yeah.

Correct.

life-changing.

Roberta (15:52)
And so what does that mean really? For me, it's learning a new side of yourself. So life changing as it relates to your own self and how you perceive the world and how you perceive yourself. And that goes from the more shallow end of things. like learning about your own personal interests. I think...

Sonia (15:58)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Roberta (16:15)
Being able to travel and put yourself in different environments, you get to really, and not having to work, not having to worry about all the other things and decisions. I leave my decisions here at home. When I go travel, it's all about wherever I am and experiencing that culture and that world. And so I've learned a lot about myself from the, I would say the more shallow and meaning like interests. know, do I like to hike? Do I like to do whatever? When you got nothing but time for yourself, you're going to do something.

Sonia (16:28)
Mm-hmm

Mm-hmm.

Roberta (16:40)
And so it's learning like what the things that you like to do. All the way to the more deeper end of things have been life changing, meaning specifically sitting in the discomfort, being lonely, being bored, and you know, dealing with that fear of like, what am I gonna do? For me, because I'm an introvert and I'm not naturally inclined to just make friends anywhere and just go up to people in a bar or restaurant and talk to people.

Sonia (16:40)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm

Right.

Roberta (17:04)
After a while, if you are somewhere for like a week or more by yourself on a solo trip, you're kind of going to want to have some level of interaction. So it was the anxiety of like getting over that and putting myself out there and having the wherewithal to know stranger danger and know who to approach and who not to and what to do and what not to do. And so, yeah, those things altogether, those like collected experiences have been life-changing for me.

Sonia (17:12)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Yeah, I can see that. And I'm glad you, when you talked about the life changing aspects of it, it was really focused on what the solo part of it.

did for you because I think people will say that travel in general is life changing, right? No matter who you with, it's life changing to see and experience other cultures. It's another thing to do that alone because what I think could happen, and I can see this happening with myself is when you plan travel with other people, you are also thinking about them and what they want to do and your, yes. Yes, you put, you.

Roberta (17:41)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

their needs, their food preferences, are they mourning people? Girl, bye. Like I'm not doing

any of that.

Sonia (18:09)
Exactly. And even when you're

there, right, you may have some solo time to yourself, but sometimes it's also influenced by with the people who are there with you, whether you love them or not. Like you can love them to death, but it's still not that. And I, and I think that you would, it would probably take multiple trips because you would do some things that, you like, you thought you would like, and maybe you don't like that as much without another person there with you. Yeah.

Roberta (18:17)
Absolutely. Right.

Exactly, Yep, that part.

you get to learn, when I mentioned like the different interests, it's like you get to learn what, okay, I really enjoy doing this thing by myself, but I really wish I could, you know, have this hiking partner. I really like to hike, but I wish I had someone with me. So you know these things, that way you can better like make decisions and kind of curate your life a little bit.

Sonia (18:54)
Definitely not hiking alone. I mean, that's not, that's not one of the things.

Roberta (18:56)
Well, mean, right. I've done it. I'm adventurous. I've done it, but

I don't necessarily recommend it for people if that's not your thing.

Sonia (19:04)
Right, I can see that being the life change, like really, and also what you said about sitting in the discomfort, sitting in the boredom, sitting in the unsureity, yeah, just being unsure.

Roberta (19:12)
sitting in the restaurant by yourself and

all of those things. Like one of the most uncomfortable, actually I'll use this as an example because there was one trip that I would say has been my best and most life-changing but also my scariest. I took a solo trip for about two weeks to Bali. Yes. It was coming, this was it. I went for my 40th birthday, I took myself, it was coming off the heels of a really rough.

Sonia (19:26)
Mm-hmm.

Two weeks? I mean, girl. Girl, nice.

Roberta (19:40)
period in my life. My relationship ended, I lost my job, and this was like maybe two and a half months before my 40th birthday, and I was like, you know what? I'm out. I'm out. I'm leaving. I don't know. It was a combination of things. It was a combination of running away from everything here. It was a combination of I just don't, you I want to experience something completely different. Either way, I did it, and I'm so glad I did. But the scariest thing, well, first of all, I have a fear of flying.

Sonia (19:41)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Right.

Roberta (20:07)
And so for me to travel somewhere on a plane, takes 24 hours on a plane to get there. That was nerve-racking to begin.

Sonia (20:14)
What

do you do for your travel anxiety?

Roberta (20:17)
Girl, Xanax and a glass and a half of wine.

Sonia (20:21)
Wow,

the whole thing. Before you leave the,

Roberta (20:23)
No, no, no, no.

So I struggle most with takeoff. No, no, no, no, no. Well, yeah, before, like maybe 45 minutes-ish before I go to board, I do that. so, but I mean, that's good for like four or five hour flight. But if you want a flight, so when you go anywhere on the other side of the world, you're likely, if you're in the East Coast, I mean, I'm based in DC, so you're flying from Dulles to somewhere.

Sonia (20:26)
I was gonna say, when you're on the term act? Mm-hmm.

Yeah!

Mm-hmm.

Roberta (20:51)
on the other side, it's going to be like a 12, 13 hour flight. And then you're going to be there for a little bit. And then you're going take another like four or five or four to seven hour, depending on where you go. Anyway, it was a lot for me to be on a plane for that long. So that was the first kind of like, okay, girl, you're going have to deal with your anxiety because you decided you were going to do this. You committed, you didn't pay for everything. You're going. So that was the first part of the scary. The other part was being, honestly, this is a weird one, but like the time zone difference.

Sonia (20:52)
Right. Correct.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm

Yeah.

Roberta (21:17)
it was a full like 12 hour difference. so knowing that I was on the full flip side of everyone that I know, like if I was feeling nervous about anything or angsty, if I wanted to call back home, which I'm sure, you know, my friends and family would be there for me, but I'm like, it's literally on the different time zone. So it was like getting used to that. It was being in different country with different language, but Bali is a little bit different because they do speak a lot of English there. And they're also very welcoming and accommodating.

Sonia (21:19)
Mm-hmm.

Right. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Roberta (21:45)
But because I was there for so long, it was a lot of that like sitting with myself. It was going to the beach and you know, I love the beach, but like, okay, I can bring a book and that will entertain me for a couple hours, but then what? You know, I go to a restaurant and I'm just sitting there and people may look at you and be like, hmm, why is she alone? Like, what are, you know, or, you know, the constant question, is, you waiting for someone? Like those kinds of questions. And they're like, right, right.

Sonia (21:48)
Right.

Right.

and then they pick up the play setting. No.

Roberta (22:10)
So it was

that, was, was, it all those things I just mentioned. Like, it was like getting to know what am I want to fill my time with? I have full agency. What time I wake up from the time I go to bed, what do want to do with my days? It was that, it was sitting with the discomfort. It was all the things.

Sonia (22:16)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

And honestly,

you were in a very trying time in your life. So sitting alone is probably not the thing that you want to do.

Roberta (22:29)
I was in a very sensitive. Yes, I know I'm

a kind of person though. I'm shock therapy. I'm out of fear of flying. I went skydiving. like, you know, I don't maybe. But I would say for me pushing myself completely out of my comfort zone is the way that I'm going to grow. And so for that trip and the funny one of the funniest things I think and this is like, I don't know. The universe is just kind of like.

Sonia (22:39)
Yeah? I mean... Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Roberta (22:56)
I think the universe just decides to mess with you sometimes. I was in, for my birthday, so I did a combination of Airbnb and hotel resort. And for my actual birthday for the three days around it, I decided to really splurge. Bali, if you don't know, is really affordable for food and accommodations. So I went to equivalent of four seasons. I think it cost me like, I don't know, 150, 175 a night. But while I was there.

Sonia (23:04)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Roberta (23:20)
I was in the restaurant and a couple times in the restaurant or at the pool, there was another black woman there. And so you can always spot another American, especially another black American woman, know, person, a black woman. I could tell she was there by herself. don't know. So after the second day, I walked up and introduced myself. I'm like, hey, you look like you might be an American. Come to find out she was from Arlington, Virginia. And this was her first solo trip.

Sonia (23:26)
Mm-hmm.

A black woman, yes. Yeah.

my god.

Roberta (23:45)
And she was a little nervous and actually she asked me to...

Sonia (23:48)
People be like, look, I'm going on my first solo trip around, on the other side of the world.

Roberta (23:51)
around the world, right? don't know,

literally, like it wasn't my first solo trip, but it was my biggest. And so, so anyway, so I was, so I'm like, girl, let's like, like come sit with me. Like we'll have a whole conversation. So anyway, she ended up asking me to take a picture with her to send to her mother because I don't think she told her mother that she was on a solo trip. I think she told her mother she was going with some friends. That was literally all it was. And it ended up, so we ended up following each other.

Sonia (23:56)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Be my friend.

Roberta (24:15)
social media, we still follow each other. She came back. She, you know, has a beautiful family now. But anyway, but I was so excited to see that she was there on a solo trip and that was her first and just watching her and we connected and like live. I'm probably, don't even know, like a half an hour from her now, but like it's the crazy that we met across the world. But that's the kind of things that will happen if you open yourself up. Like I could have easily.

Sonia (24:26)
I love that. And you guys connected.

Mm-hmm.

That is crazy.

Yeah.

Roberta (24:41)
been at that resort or you know, been at that hotel, saw her and be like, you know, and made up my own like, I'm curious, da, da, da. But if I had never walked up to her and introduced or just say hello, I would have never known her whole story. You know, I'd never, I would have never been her kind of buddy that she could take pictures with to send to her mother, you know, like, so you gotta like go into these things with this open mind and open spirit.

Sonia (24:50)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Right.

For real, open mind,

open, yes, I was gonna say open heart, but yeah, you definitely do, to have the best, most authentic experience, I think.

Roberta (25:11)
Yes, and I feel like

that is the biggest motivation for all of this solo travel, especially with black women, because we just want a different experience than what we've been having and what we're used to here. And so yeah, yeah. So wait, all right. So if you could design your dream solo trip, where would you go and how long would you stay?

Sonia (25:23)
Mm-hmm. Mm. Yes, we do. And what is?

Mm-hmm.

So I thought about this. like, I don't know if I have a dream. I don't have a dream destination. I just know what I want in the trip, right? I know that I would want it to be somewhere where I can be in nature. I don't like bugs or animals, but I do.

Roberta (25:48)
Okay.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

I mean, that is pretty much nature.

Sonia (25:59)
Let's be, no, I like the

nature that don't move. I like the trees. I love trees. I love grass. I love beach. Yes, I love it. Right. I need to be outside where I can see sun. Correct. I don't want nothing breathing or flying near me. But.

Roberta (26:06)
Okay, you can just look at it and water. Okay. Earth, wind and fire. This is what you would want.

Fair

enough, okay. Mmm, yeah. Aw, how about I didn't know this about you? Okay, we can like moon star gaze together.

Sonia (26:19)
I like sunsets, sunrises. I love looking at the moon. I love stargazing. I love being outside. Yes, I do. Every time there's a...

I know, I love it. I was like, we went to Outer Banks. I'm like, let's get up at 5 a.m. and watch the sunrise. And they were like...

Roberta (26:36)
Hmmmm

I don't know about 5am, I don't

know about that.

Sonia (26:41)
It was beautiful. Anyway,

so I would want to be somewhere in nature. At first I thought it needed to be warm, but then I started to think about that. Like I could see myself going to see like the Northern Lights.

Roberta (26:45)
Okay.

Hmm.

I literally was just about to say that

I was like I was about to tell you to go to Iceland or go to Stockholm love Stockholm

Sonia (27:00)
Yeah, could see

the Northern lights, I don't want it to be winter. Does it ever get warm there? I just need it to be not freezing. Fallish.

Roberta (27:10)
Okay, so if you want to see Northern

Lights and for it not to be freezing, I would recommend Stockholm in July. Anywhere between July and September. Yeah.

Sonia (27:16)
Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah. I love

mountains. One of my, one of the trips that I want to take with Derrick is going to Switzerland. I would love to go to Switzerland because I just love picturesque outside mountains. I love looking at them. Yes. Yes.

Roberta (27:27)
Hmm, yeah, I've never been.

Yes. There's a train that you can book that like takes you all through. it's like,

I mean, it's like super bougie. has like, you know, the wine and the food and the thing and all the stuff, but like, and the chocolate, but I digress. Yeah. Yes.

Sonia (27:39)
I don't care.

Yeah, that's what I would want. I would want something like that to be

in nature. I want it to be no longer than a week. And, you know, that's it.

Roberta (27:52)
Okay. Wait, why

is that? Why a week? Why is that your sweet spot?

Sonia (27:56)
I feel like that's enough. That's enough time with

myself. I guess. mean, I've never done, this is the first, right? Is this the first or I don't know? A week is good.

Roberta (28:02)
there.

True,

Right. Also, I'm going to point out that like during your description, you mentioned, Derrick this is supposed to be your dream solo trip.

Sonia (28:13)
I know

I said Switzerland, that's, know, my God. I would love to go to, cannot. I am going to Switzerland one day and I can't wait. But yes, something, my God. This is why I haven't, it's conversations like this. Why I haven't had a solo trip yet. Let's go together. And I have two sisters and anytime I say I'm going somewhere, they're like, we're going. And so, you know,

Roberta (28:22)
Let's go to Switzerland together. Okay, I know you're supposed to be planning your solo trip, like, I've never been to Switzerland and I wanna go.

We should

take that as a compliment that like people think you're fun enough that you want to travel with you.

Sonia (28:41)
I mean,

I think so. Yeah, my sister was totally going to Paris for her birthday. She got a birthday trip to Paris and me and my younger sister were like, we're going and we did.

Roberta (28:47)
Mmm.

I love, so I know I love Paris. I've been to Paris like four or five times. I think I would live there and, Wait, why, I mean, okay. If you're not a kind of person that likes New York or like cities like that, then really, then why didn't you like Paris?

Sonia (28:55)
You know, I didn't love Paris. Didn't love it.

I love New York.

It was overrated and I couldn't find good food, okay? I found one good restaurant just randomly. That food was good. It was just okay. You know what I did love though? I did not love Paris. It was fine. Maybe I need to go back, right? Maybe I need to go back, but I would not, if I'm going to Paris again, it will not be the only place I'm going. It would be like a stopover.

Roberta (29:13)
What?

Wait, wait, Okay.

Fair, that's fair.

Sonia (29:30)
I, we went to Spain, Barcelona. That was by far my favorite. my God. I prefer that so much.

Roberta (29:33)
Yeah, I haven't been to Barcelona. That is on my list.

Everybody I know that has been to Barcelona

says that's their favorite. Like everybody and I know a lot of people that travel. Okay. Yeah.

Sonia (29:45)
So much.

over Paris any day because

it is city, right? We stayed in the city. It's city, but then can take a trip up to more like suburb-y, where they had the Olympic villages and stuff. That's more like green grass and you can see it's not city. Then you have the beach if you go that way. Then there's so much history. There's shopping. The food was amazing. The first restaurant we went to, the food

Roberta (30:00)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sonia (30:16)
I said, Paris, what the hell was you doing? What was that brown stuff you brought to me? What was that brown stuff? You said it was chicken, but I don't know.

Roberta (30:18)
You

Kevin, be berguignon.

Sonia (30:26)
Whatever, did

not like it. Anyway, okay. Please go to Barcelona.

Roberta (30:29)
Barcelona maybe I'll add that I was trying to figure out if it's a way for me to do Barcelona

and Portugal there has to be in the same like trip like flyover and Girl meet me in Barcelona. I'll go to Portugal and then I'll meet you in but we just just sitting Okay, yes solo

Sonia (30:37)
I wanna go back. I would go back there in a heartbeat. But Paris.

This is solo, solo. So let's, okay.

Besides friends always latching on to your travel plans, let's talk about what keeps women from traveling solo. So I looked this up cause I was curious. I mean, I could think of a million reasons, but according to this global survey done by this research company called Statista, Statista, women say personal safety.

Roberta (30:52)
you

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a tister, I think, yeah.

Mm-hmm. I mean, yeah.

Sonia (31:10)
and higher costs are the things that keep them from traveling

solo. I mean, understandable, understandable. So since you have done this multiple times, safety, was this ever a concern? How did you get over it? Obviously you did. So how did you get over it?

Roberta (31:16)
Those are real, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So there's a couple of things. And part of it is just me personally. Like I've lived in cities for the last probably like 20 years. So for better or worse, I'm just used to keeping my head on a swivel and just being mindful of my surroundings. But even outside of that natural tendency, I think there's a couple of things of just like common sense and research. Like choose locations where generally they have a low crime rate.

Sonia (31:34)
Right.

Correct.

Yes.

Roberta (31:54)
that have cities that are walkable.

Sonia (31:54)
Mm-hmm.

Roberta (31:58)
if you're going to somewhere that's more like rural or like spaced out, just making sure that you have accessibility to police, hospital, like all the things. So just like on a baseline, just do your research and make sure that where you're going is hospitable. And then while you're there, or just in general, think, and this is something that like solo travel will help train you on is like just situational and spatial awareness. Like just being aware of your surroundings. And it's not necessarily being hyper vigilant because if you're,

Sonia (31:58)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Roberta (32:25)
too much of that, you're not going to have a good time. But there's like little things that I keep in mind when I go places. like, for example, when I went to Bali, I tend to not stay out as late as I typically would if I was in the US or I don't drink as much, you know, because I want to make sure I have full, full faculty, you know, so like stuff like that, that you can do to just kind of, you know, protect yourself.

Sonia (32:27)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Roberta (32:47)
Even if I, like there was a couple places, actually in Bali, I met these two young girls, they were so cute and they just wanted to hang out and party and have fun and like for a couple days, so did I. But like even though they were cool, I'm like, I still don't know them. You know what I mean? So I'm not gonna let my guard down just because I'm hanging out with like a couple other women. So it's just, yeah, just keeping a guard, but also like being open. So it's just, it's a fine balance and like solo travel will help you refine that within yourself.

Sonia (33:00)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Roberta (33:15)
Other things I think to keep yourself safe, use technology. When I started solo travel, we didn't have as much resources as we do now. like share your location, drop a pin, let people know where you are. If you're staying somewhere, Airbnb or hotel or whatever, let people know where you're staying. There's sub countries where, and Bali was one, where you can register with the state department. I didn't know this, right? I had no idea until my neighbor.

Sonia (33:18)
Right.

Yeah. Right. Yes.

Roberta (33:39)
she's retired from the state department and she said basically you can and it's easy to do you mean basically just call there and be like hey i'm here in this country i'm here from this state to this state so if any you know some shit go down at least they have a record of it right right if i'm on tiktok they don't know

Sonia (33:48)
Mm-hmm.

And now they're be like, the US and China are gonna be like, we know, we saw it. We saw it on your text, it's fine.

You good, we got you down. Thanks for calling. Yes. No, I think that's a great advice, because I never thought about it. Particularly if you're going somewhere far, if you're going somewhere where, yeah, for sure, for sure.

Roberta (34:00)
But if you want to make it official, could potentially go to an embassy or, you know, yes, Department of State.

Yeah.

Right. When you're just not familiar at all. yeah.

What else? always carry a little cash with you. Do carry, not like hundreds, but like carry a little bit because you never know. I mean, most places at this, you know, 2024 will take, you know, cards, but you never know. Like I've been in situations in other countries where, you know, if you're in a taxi or something, I love Bali because they had,

Sonia (34:22)
you say do carry cash. Right.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Roberta (34:42)
They use their motorcycles for like their Uber. And yeah, they're not taking a card. So you've got to make sure you have like a little bit of cash to like.

Sonia (34:44)
Mm-hmm.

Okay, here's

it. So do you exchange before you get there or do you exchange in the airport? Like, what do you do?

Roberta (34:54)
Definitely exchange before you leave. You're

gonna get the best exchange rates if you do it here, either with your own bank, don't do it in the airport, don't do it when you get there, because they're gonna rip you off. So just set aside some money, you don't have to take a lot of cash, because again, a lot of places take cars these days. But also make sure that your car does not charge foreign exchange fees, that's another thing too. That's a big one.

Sonia (35:01)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Yes, that's a big one. And also, call

your bank, call your cell phone company.

Roberta (35:19)
Call your bank, call your wife, call your kids. Call

everything, call your cell phone. Yes, please make sure I learn that the hard way. One of the first times I went, I traveled, was not telling my Verizon that I was going somewhere and I got hit with all these international. Anyway, make sure all that stuff is done before you leave. Exactly. Yes, yes, yes.

Sonia (35:25)
Yeah.

yeah.

Yes, that's important. Yeah, because it also affects your roaming and your ability to pull up something on Google right away. If you don't, if you

haven't told them that you were traveling, made accommodations to say, okay, I could use this or you can put me on this plan so I can get more roaming while I'm there. But yeah, you need to do that. That's good advice.

Roberta (35:49)
Right, do that.

One other thing, it's not really a matter of safety, it's just a matter of like just good common sense. Like don't be an obnoxious American. Like, and by that I mean, this is gonna be like a, don't be entitled, like don't, this is a personal pet peeve. I hate it when people go to other countries and they go to restaurants or they go to get street food.

Sonia (36:05)
Don't act like you at home, okay? You are not at home. Yeah.

Roberta (36:16)
and they try to Americanize whatever it is. Like they're trying to, give me this, but make the chicken like this and da da. You're in another country. Just experience it while you're there. Just eat the brown chicken Sonia

Sonia (36:19)
Mm-hmm.

Just eat the brown chicken, Sonia. I did,

I didn't complain. I did look at it funny, but I did not complain. I said, okay, this is what you gave me. This is what I ordered and this is what you gave me. Yeah, but I also, yeah, I think you're right. Respecting local cultures. If you're going to be, if you're going to get the travel bug, you shouldn't be expecting the United States wherever you go. And we live very differently over here in Abu Dhabi. my gosh.

Roberta (36:31)
Do you?

Right, exactly.

Just go all in. Nope, please don't. Please don't go nowhere. Ask them for no chicken tenders. Right.

Sonia (36:50)
the food portions are so much smaller. I'm like, this is where I need to be. I was like, wow, we really are greedy asses over here. Like why, this is what a normal soda looks like. I'm like, why the heck are we like triple the size soda? was, triple, anyway, that's another, that's another podcast. That's another podcast. so what do you,

Roberta (36:57)
No, we really are.

Yes! Girl. And triple the sugar. Everything here has so much more sugar. Anyway, that's a whole nother, right? Ugh.

Sonia (37:16)
do to keep the cost down when you're traveling? Because at first I was thinking, it'd be cheaper, because you don't have to consider other people, but actually it's the other way around. Like if you were traveling with other people, the cost wouldn't be as much, because you're splitting rooms, you're splitting things. Okay, so what do you have? Do you have tips that you do to keep the cost down? What do you do?

Roberta (37:18)
Hmm.

Exactly.

Yes.

So first and foremost, if you happen to have a job where you can travel, and I know we've been talking in the context of international travel, but even domestically, if you have the ability with your job to travel anywhere, just tackle on a few extra days at the end of your work trip. Because you already have your transportation covered. And it's nothing really, it's no change in the expense for your company to change your return date from a Wednesday to a Sunday. You know what mean?

Sonia (37:44)
Mm-hmm, correct.

Mm-hmm.

That's true.

Right.

Roberta (38:02)
Try that if you can.

Sonia (38:03)
Good one.

Roberta (38:04)
I tend to use a mix of Airbnb and hotel and resorts.

Sonia (38:09)
I'm gonna be honest. Hell to the naw, to the naw naw. I've had some terrible experience. I had my best Airbnb experience was in Venice Beach, California. It was so cute. It was the cutest little bungalow. So cute, loved it, loved everything about it. Made me wanna move there.

Roberta (38:10)
You're not a Airbnb girl, are you?

But why?

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Sonia (38:30)
But I've had some horror stories. I'll save for another podcast. Hate it, but you you stay in Airbnb

Roberta (38:34)
Yeah, I mean, yeah.

If you're the kind of person that does that, I do all the time. I will stay in an Airbnb before I will a hotel.

So that's one way to potentially cut costs. If you're going somewhere for a long trip, so I would say long would be like at least, I don't know, five plus days. Maybe try to stay somewhere where you can cook a few days to kind of keep kind of mix the eating out versus the just getting groceries and cooking for yourself. That saved a lot of money.

Sonia (38:51)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Roberta (39:01)
Again, make sure your phone's on the international plan, your credit cards and everything, all that's buttoned up for you to go. But yeah, those are the main things, I think, yeah. mean, either way, you're gonna have to save for some of these trips, again, especially if they're international. So just plan for it. Like, have in your mind, I'm going to go to Switzerland in April. And so, you can plan for it and get excited by saving for it.

Sonia (39:07)
Mm-hmm

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I'll also say like plan your restaurants. Like I think the beauty of the internet is that you can find your restaurants and you don't have to, maybe you want to treat yourself to a few luxury experiences or one of a kind experiences, but everything else could be on the cheap. Like, you know, where did the locals eat? What do they eat? know, where do they go? which is I, you know what? And we went to Cabo once and the best food we had was just leaving the area where we were staying and just venturing off down some street. We had the best.

Roberta (39:25)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Sonia (39:52)
street tacos. it was so good. I still think about them. What? 18 years later, cause that was for my honeymoon.

Roberta (39:53)
See? Yep.

Sonia (39:58)
So for people who want to travel, but they want, you know, they, they're still nervous about it. What about them? I think, go ahead. No, I was going to say one of the things that,

I can appreciate, kind of similar to the story of the girl I follow on Instagram, where she's with a travel company, a travel group, and they're living in different countries for 12 months, a new country every month. She's traveling with a travel group, which I think is great, because it gives you the opportunity to...

be alone when you want and then deal with people when you want. So normally those kinds of trips will, they'll plan some activities for you and some of them will be optional. Maybe all of them are optional where you can join them, you know, for some things and then do things on your own. It allows you to make friends easily, right? Because they're in the same group. They're having the same experience as you. And so it gives you a chance to, you know, meet with them and, and, you know, easy access to them.

Roberta (40:33)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Exactly.

Sonia (41:00)
Like I said, the activities are planned. Also, I thought this was cool when I, I didn't realize this, but you can find groups that are tailored to your age, your gender, your interest. If you like hiking, there are hiking groups. If you're a woman of a certain age, they have a group for you. And that's like, yeah.

Roberta (41:09)
Mm-hmm.

Yep.

I love this about 2024 or like post pandemic because

this shit did not exist like 20 years ago. You'd be like, girl, you better figure it out.

Sonia (41:22)
It did not. I, yeah. You better get you a satellite phone

and figure, them letters home. Remember postcards to people.

Roberta (41:30)
No, postcards were a

thing. Everybody was excited to get a postcard. Right. Right, exactly.

Sonia (41:35)
Bring me a postcard! Now it's like tag me on social media, child. Save your

stamp. I don't even think the postcard would make it back to the US. Like, what are we doing with this thing? 20 years later.

Roberta (41:46)
right.

Sonia (41:49)
yes. So my mom travels like that with groups of people that she doesn't know. Yeah. She's like in her diva era now. Okay. She's like been to Greece and going to Bali this, this spring or something. I'm like, wow. I mean, that's... Hello. Let's have an episode on that. We do need to talk about if I'm like, yeah, I'll do solo travel when the kids are grown and out of the house. I need to have money to do that. So, yes.

Roberta (41:52)
I love that.

EEEEW!

See, that's why I need to save for retirement because that's what I wanted to look like.

Mm-mm. Mm-mm. Right. Yay!

Sonia (42:17)
So this has been great. You've done such, yes, I'm so glad

that we were able to do this. And you got all the experience. mean, you gave some great tips. You've been on 15 trips. Where are you going next? What's your next solo adventure? Wait, first of all, I say solo because the child is going to Maldives. Should I say that? You're going to Maldives.

Roberta (42:29)
Mmm next solo adventure

So I leave

in like very soon. This is a vacation which I...

two years? I don't know, it's been a long time. So, is it? I try to plan, okay, this is another thing. So like when I, actually like prioritize travel and then maybe it's because I worked in travel for so long. I ran consumer marketing for an international like travel organization. So it's just always been top of mind. Anyway, but I like try to get in two international trips a year.

Sonia (42:49)
Mm-hmm. That's not that long. Two years is not...

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Roberta (43:13)
and then maybe like three or four domestic trips, whether that be solo or like whatever. I know I ain't got kids and I got no husband.

Sonia (43:15)
Mm-hmm. my God. Sounds amazing. Remember when people tell you the grass ain't greener? Sometimes it's greener.

Sometimes that grass is greener. It's not you.

Roberta (43:24)
But

the other flip side of that is just like, I, you know, it be lonely trips, you know? Or if I'm in a situation where like I really want to do this thing, but like I wish I had someone to go with me and I don't, then I'm like, I'm likely not to do the trip. So there's, there's, know, benefit. Yeah, that's trade-off. It sure is. Yes.

Sonia (43:35)
Yeah.

Trade-offs. My grass is green too. We both have green grass.

All right, so let's leave the listeners with a little challenge around this topic. So what would you challenge our listeners to do around solo travel? If they've never done it, what would you challenge them?

Roberta (43:49)
Okay.

Ooh. They've never done it, but

you're interested. You really want to kind of wade into it. I would say plan a solo staycation. So, plan something for at least three days, you know.

Sonia (44:06)
And when you

say staycation, means in the city that you're in.

Roberta (44:09)
It could be in the city that you're in or it could be like a relatively close like road trip, you know.

Sonia (44:14)
Like

a, what would they call it? A one tank trip. You never heard of it? It used to be, used to be, back in St. O, yeah. Back in Cleveland. Why did the? Exactly, yes, they used to have one tank trips. It was a feature on the news. Anyway. First of all, don't come for it. Don't come for my city.

Roberta (44:16)
I have never heard that. And I've worked in, no, a one tank trip. I mean, I get it. Back at St. Olaf.

anywhere you can get to on one take a gas. get it.

That's so Cleveland. Anyways.

I would say take a one tank trip of

your choosing for at least two or three days and journal all of the activities you enjoy. really, you know, put yourself out there, do some things that now that you have the space and the time and journal about like what you enjoy. Now bonus points, if you can also make note and journal through the uncomfortable moments and start to work through those.

Sonia (44:48)
Yeah, that's a good one.

Yeah.

Roberta (45:04)
because that is really the homework that will help you in actually traveling further out by yourself.

Sonia (45:05)
Nice.

I would add to that to say and you could even as you're planning your staycation or your one-tank trip Maybe you can start to get ready for that trip by already like doing things alone So if you're not comfortable if the alone part is the thing that makes you nervous in your own city without leaving the comfort of your home or not You know for a for extended stay somewhere You can just go to the movies by yourself go to dinner by yourself go to the museum like do something by yourself

Roberta (45:22)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm?

Sonia (45:39)
and see how that feels, like ease yourself into it. And the other thing that I will say, the other challenge that I'll say is join a Facebook group.

or a Facebook travel group, like get inspired, start, look, the algorithm, look, all you gotta do is look at two things and it's following you for at least two weeks. So go and look at travel, go to Pinterest and pin destinations where you wanna go. I just feel like get inspired to want to see the world and what do you wanna see and imagine yourself there. So that's what I would say.

Roberta (45:50)
Yeah. Yes.

Yes.

Ooh, I like that one.

Okay.

Good challenges, good challenges. I love it.

Sonia (46:15)
Yay! All right, this was a great conversation. So we gonna...

Roberta (46:18)
Yes, one of my favorite topics.

Sonia (46:20)
Wrap it up here. Thank you guys for joining us today and we will see you actually before I like sign out, follow us on social. Follow us on IG, Facebook. We are on TikTok, but I don't really be on TikTok, but follow us on IG and Facebook at Grown and Growing Podcast.

Roberta (46:31)
Speaking of social, yeah.

You're so grown and growing.

Sonia (46:38)
on YouTube, we're gonna upload this unedited at YouTube, growing and growing podcast. Also, please share if you like what you hear, if you like this podcast, share it with your friends and your family. Leave us a positive review. Leave us a review on YouTube, leave us a review on Apple and Spotify. Please, please, please, we would love you forever if you could do that. So, now with that said, thank you guys for listening and we'll see you next time.

Roberta (46:59)
Yes.

Bye.